Building an Organization-Wide Inclusive Learning Culture with Kim Vu | Episode 3
Welcome to DEI Leaders by Crescendo. In this series, Sage Franch, CEO of Crescendo, hosts conversations with diversity, equity and inclusion practitioners, sharing valuable insights from their work.
Our latest conversation is with Kim Vu, Vice President of Environmental Social Governance at Remitly.
Listen to the podcast or read below for the edited transcript.
Sage: Hello and welcome to today's episode of DEI leaders by Crescendo, where we interview industry leaders and culture champions about diversity, equity and inclusion in practice. I'm your host Sage Franch and I'm joined today by Kim Vu, Vice President of Environmental Social Governance at Remitly. Kim, thank you so much for joining us.
Kim: Sage, thanks so much for including me today.
(0:33) Sage: I am so excited for us to have this conversation. We've been working together now for quite some time, and I know that our audience is very curious about how to build a learning culture of DEI in their organizations. So I'm super excited to hear your thoughts and advice for our community on that. And just to get started, I'd love to hear about you and your role and how you came into this work. Did you find DEI work or did DEI work find you?
Kim: Such a great question and first off, thanks for inviting me to participate. I'm excited to be here, just going to share a little bit about some of the lessons learned over the years, and how I got into this work. If I found DEI or if it found me, I think it's kind of a little bit of both honestly. My background has been in financial services for over 20 years. The first half of that was focused on being in the business, running lines of business, and the latter half has been focused primarily on environmental, social governance and corporate social responsibility. I came into that work because I saw while I was in the business, so many opportunities to think about how we could create greater impact beyond the bottom line, and really thinking about the power of the resources that a company has to create change in communities. And so that's what piqued my interest to make that transition into environmental social governance and in corporate social responsibility.
And as part of that over the years, for folks who are familiar with CSR, you know the primary focus has kind of always been on what's the employee impact on communities, how can companies create greater social benefit for the world. And over time, I think what has shifted quite a bit because of the ways in which we've experienced life and how the world has changed so dramatically over the last few years but specifically the last two to three years, with social and economic unrest and the global pandemic and environmental shifts and changes that are happening all over the world with disasters becoming more common as part of our shared lived experiences. But we're all experiencing them differently, and that actually kind of helped me I think come to a point where the realization of how important actually weaving DEI into CSR work is.
Historically, diversity, equity and inclusion work has been primarily a function of the people team and HR. Really kind of focused on how do we create inclusive environments for employees and it predominantly kind of just lived there, right? But what I found over the last few years is how important, as we think about not only employee experience where we think about the impacts of the varied lived experiences identities against the impact that we're trying to create in the world as organizations, and how it's important to really kind of think about that intersection. And so, I found the work in terms of making conscious choices about shifting my career but the DEI work also found me in the work that I was doing in ESG. And seeing the value and the power and the need to be able to see how important it was to think about the re-allocation of corporate resources through the lens of the different experiences of those who may be impacted and who need to also be at the table for those conversations around how we re-distribute resources.
(4:40) Sage: That's super interesting. I talked to a lot of DEI folks who are in the process of advocating to move DEI out of the HR function and distribute it across the business or put it into a more high-impact area or high-ownership area of the organization. I'm really curious to hear your thoughts, with DEI being a core part of ESG or CSR, how are you structuring your organization to make maximum impact, and what are the outcomes that you focus on?
Kim: So on our journey at Remitly, when we think about diversity, equity and inclusion at our company, it was really built into the mission of our organization. So for us it was HR plus and plus plus – you know, many things. Because as we think about our business, we started out with identifying an issue within financial services by seeing that there was an inequity in exclusion of immigrants to be able to access financial services, specifically remittances, in order to make it easier and more affordable for them to be able to send their money home to their families in different countries. And so, with having that in mind as we created the business, of kind of recognizing that the core of what we do really kind of solves and brings into the fold, more inclusion and equity to a historical financial services system that has left a lot of people unbanked and underbanked. And so as we thought about DEI at our company, we really tried to weave it in throughout the business from the start. And when I joined the company two years ago, it was really at a place where the company was ready to be able to kind of look at it also structurally, across the organization. To say what are all of the policies and practices and programs that need to be reviewed and improved? And what are the things that we actually need to implement and put in place as we grow as an organization?
Being that we were in a very high growth stage of the life cycle, it was the perfect time for us to start to think about that before we became a really large company that you know, structures and systems start to bake in and are much harder to unwind. We’re at this place where we're malleable enough to be able to say okay, like this isn't working, let's fix that, this is working, let's establish that. So it's in this place where we can tweak and continuously improve on those different practices and policies we have across the organization in HR, in product, in compliance, in customer success. Just kind of giving you examples of where it shows up in our conversations.
(7:52) Sage: That's such a phenomenal way to approach it, and you know, as an impact-driven company ourselves at Crescendo that really resonates with me. I think that high growth phase when you have a lot of new folks onboarding can be a time of great opportunity and great challenge for folks who are really working to make an environment inclusive for everybody. Particularly when you are starting with maybe a more uniform workforce and suddenly welcoming a lot more diversity through hiring. What were some of the things that you found to be most impactful at that high growth phase that really made a difference to folks who were already on the team and who were joining and growing with you?
Kim: Yeah, I think one of the things that helped us, and we’re continuously iterating on it too so it's not something that's static, right? I think that's the thing when you're thinking about how do you create an inclusive culture, it's not to say okay, check the box, I did this thing so now it should work. Right? Especially where we're at with being in that growth space recently, having IPO-ed and continued to experience the growth as a company. So lots of people are joining constantly, so that shifts the dynamics of our culture, and inclusion starts to kind of shift and evolve as well. And so it's really important for us to really focus on culture and inclusion. And then I think a lot of companies are constantly thinking about how do we continue to recruit and bring more people in? But I think it's also more important to think about what does our culture look like and is it set up to be able to welcome in all of the diverse lived experiences and identities that we want to bring into the workplace so that we make better decisions, so we can build better teams and a better product. And so we spent a lot of time around thinking about culture in terms of what are the practices that we need to put in place to really help and create that environment – and we start on day one.
So for example, as we continued to grow the new hire orientation onboarding experience for all of our employees, they see our work around DEI in several different places in that process. They've actually seen it before they even came to the organization through our recruitment process because we actually require all of our employees to go through an inclusive training workshop before they become an interviewer to participate on an interview panel.
So we’re trying to be really mindful of how we welcome candidates into the company. But even as they're coming into the company as new employees, they're also seeing that on their day one. Through videos that we incorporate into their learning journey, they spend time with me as part of a new hire orientation where we engage in a learning activity as part of their onboarding experience to help them with getting experience very early on about how we want everybody to show up curious and wanting to learn from and appreciate everybody’s different lived experiences and stories, and encourage folks to be able to do that. All for the benefit of creating a more inclusive culture and ultimately so that we have built a strong sense of empathy for different lived experiences that help us actually create a better product and better solutions for our customers.
Sage: Yeah, that's really great. From the very first time that somebody encounters Remitly, I mean even just in the wild you can really feel how important this is to your company. And then joining to have that incorporated from day one in such an authentic way, it's very powerful.
Kim: Yeah, I was just going to add that one of the things that we do to continue that learning for our employees, so they don't just see it on day one and then it goes away, we've actually built in a number of different routines as well on company time to encourage continued learning. And so, one of the things that we offer to all of our employees is 8 hours a month of learning and development time where they can utilize that time to increase their capabilities around the skills that they're trying to learn for their job or their next role, but it also includes the time that they spend to set aside to learn about different topics that they might be interested in, like unconscious bias or how to be a more inclusive leader. Things like that, that we’ve created content and provided content or access to so that they can utilize that time to be able to learn.
But we've also set aside routines like our DEI all-hands and office hours which happen on a weekly basis. So what we found is that while it's really important to be able to have company-wide trainings and have folks talk about particular issues like once a year or twice a year, we recognize that that's not enough right? And so, what we've done is created spaces where folks can learn on a weekly basis if we set aside one hour a week, for all employees to be able to engage. And so example, the first week of the month is allotted to all of our affinity group leaders to come together and connect and learn from one another, create community and space. The second week of the month we do a DEI all-hands for our North American teammates. Our third week of the month we do a DEI all-hands for international teammates and then the fourth week of the month we host office hours, which is a more unstructured space for open dialogue and questions.
(14:22) Sage: Yeah, that's awesome and those opportunities of bringing people together to have that open dialogue can really have very positive shockwave effects throughout the organization. How are you measuring the success of these initiatives? What are you looking at to see if these are going well or maybe you know, these are areas we need to pivot?
Kim: So, our kind of all-up overall view on whether or not our efforts around this are working is the belonging score as part of our engagement survey. It’s really understanding the data behind employee responses to the question “I feel like I belong at Remitly”. And so that becomes our north star in terms of gauging inclusion at our company, and so that's kind of the all-up one that we look at, but there's obviously a lot of other metrics that we look at beneath that. And one of them that actually has been really helpful for us and we continue to explore it and figure out how to make even more meaning from it, is actually the data that we're getting from Crescendo.
And so with employees engaging on the Crescendo platform and selecting different topics and sharing with us, which topics are most valuable, the things that they're learning, the things that they want to learn more about, it’s actually giving us information about understanding, okay, here are the gaps and areas that we probably want to spend a little bit more time on. Like if folks say, I'm wanting to learn more about the experiences of immigrants and refugees as part of their learning, which makes sense for our business, it gives us the opportunity to be able to then take that information and add more content to other parts of our programming outside of Crescendo. And so that's an example of kind of some of the data points that we're gaining from actually using learning technology like Crescendo, where it's adding value for the individual employee from the microlearnings, but on the back-end really giving us the power to understand how our employees are learning and what's valuable to them.
(16:55) Sage: That insight can be very helpful and I'm glad that you're able to get that through what we're doing together. How much of the learning would you say is self-directed by individuals learning on their own, versus that group environment where people are coming together to talk?
Kim: Yeah, I'd say it's a mix and we do that intentionally because I think what's really important to recognize too when we're thinking about learning and developing, is meeting people where they are. Not only on their learning journey but just also from a timing perspective, because everybody's schedules are so full and so packed, and so we want to be able to create a mix of different engagements that allow for more folks to be able to engage where they're at and what's available to them. And so, I would say it's a mix of both. I think being able to have self-directed resources for them to learn is really key to being able to provide them an environment where they can kind of say, this is the time that I've set aside where I can learn about particular topics, but also equally being able to create spaces where folks can come together because I think there's a lot of power in taking what you learn and actually putting it into action and having a safe space to practice it. And so I think self-directed learning is a good place to absorb and intellectualize what you're learning, but it's in the group spaces where folks come together to then practice what they're learning, is where they’re really internalizing the learning that they're having.
(18:47) Sage: Is there any particular story that comes to mind that you can share about when you've seen that happen?
Kim: Great question, I'm trying to think, there's so many different experiences and stories I'm trying to pick one. But I think one of the things that has been really valuable, for example, there's been several instances of this, not necessarily in the group learning environments, but you know so many of us are on shared communication channels. Whether you're using Slack or other platforms, but you know lots of conversations happen on the platform, and sometimes, really kind of understanding intent versus impact. For example, how folks are learning and want to share their learnings. Sometimes, maybe folks will share something that they're learning, but it creates a harmful impact to somebody else when they post it. And so it's been an opportunity for the organization and employees within the organization to say, hey, how do I communicate that to someone, right? Rather than having like a big cancel conversation on Slack, it's encouraging and teaching our employees the skills to be able to say, hey, I noticed this post that you had on the channel. You know, help me learn a little bit more about why was that important for you to share, is there an opportunity for us to put for example, a trigger warning on it before you posted, here's why.
And so, taking the dialogue online to offline, one on one, and be able to create the space for folks to have the skills to be able to introduce that dialogue with one another offline and then bring it back online to be able to say, hey, I had a really great conversation with so and so, appreciated the feedback that I received. Here are some of the things that I'm just adjusting to shift this conversation in a different direction. And so I think like we've had a few examples of those over the years that have been really great to see because folks need to see how it happens. And these are the things that happen on a more daily basis versus more larger issues. It's kind of those smaller day-to-day interactions of like: how do I learn how to bring up a difficult topic or provide constructive feedback and engage in a dialogue that might not be easy to have and is so personal? But in a way that respects each person with lived experiences in the moment and holding the space for each other, for those conversations.
(21:54) Sage: You know I have to ask, when you look at an organization, it sounds like this is extremely well organized and you can get very deep in a lot of these subjects with folks. And that model behavior, being able to demonstrate how we want this type of thing to be handled here, who does that fall on? Is that your role as the you know, as the most senior DEI leader here or is that kind of distributed? And how do you think of your role in interplaying with the individual learning journeys of all of the folks in your organization?
Kim: Yeah, I would say it's a collaborative effort, right? And so, there are expectations for our leaders to be engaged and involved, and we create. So for example, going back to those routines that I just mentioned around our DEI all-hands and office hours, those are co-hosted with a senior leader and myself. So it's one of the ways in which we want to make sure that we're creating accountability, visibility of our senior leaders, and participating in hearing and learning alongside our employees. And so that creates the model behavior that you were mentioning earlier. But also it spreads the responsibility and accountability across the organization. Ultimately, yes, I am the one that's kind of spearheading some of those efforts, but it's really around a collective effort and shared responsibility in terms of who owns DEI across the organization. You know, I frequently reference one of our cultural values – be an owner, to remind folks of that. That DEI is all of our jobs, not just not just mine, not just my teams’. So I think how we try to weave in and remind folks by also leaning in on our cultural values really helps connect the dots and tie it together for folks.
(24:01) Sage: Awesome, awesome. I have one last question for you. You know, at Crescendo we love our actionable tips. So what is one actionable tip or takeaway that you have for the DEI practitioners who are listening to this conversation who want to get started with fostering a really healthy culture of DEI learning in their organization?
Kim: Yeah, I mean there's so many things that we can do, but I think for us and what's made it so successful for us, is listening to our employees. I think start by creating the space for continuous feedback and input. With our employees, all the programming and routines that we have in place, even including Crescendo, is only useful and successful if our employees find it valuable. And I don't know that unless I'm plugged in and connected to them, and so one of the most valuable things that I've appreciated and learned as a DEI leader is the value of the employee’s voice. And so I would say, where to start in terms fostering that culture of learning is, how do we create that space where we're learning together? And that starts with employee engagement and feedback, and valuing employee voice in that process.
(25:29) Sage: That is fantastic advice and a great note for us to close out on. Kim, thank you so much for joining us today and sharing your awesome experiences with us. I know that our listeners at home are probably taking down as many notes as I am as they listen to this and they might want to ask us some follow up questions after listening to this episode. Where can our audience connect with you and follow your updates or reach out?
Kim: Yeah! I appreciate the opportunity to engage and share. I'm always, in the spirit of learning, continuously looking to learn from others as well, so welcome the connections. I'm on Twitter and also on LinkedIn so that's where you can find me.
Sage: And what's your Twitter handle?
Kim: It's @Kimmilyn.
Sage: Perfect, perfect. You know, thank you again for this conversation. Really appreciate the opportunity to learn from you today and very excited to see how this continues to evolve as you continue to grow.
Kim: Awesome, thanks so much Sage. Really appreciate our continued partnership and in the learning journey as well.
That wraps up this episode of the DEI Leaders podcast, click below to listen to the audio version. Look forward to more episodes with key insights from DEI practitioners!
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