Discussing The Future of D&I Strategy In Tech with Ulysses Smith | Episode 9
Welcome to Crescendo Chats: Scaling Diversity & Inclusion. In this series, Crescendo co-founder Stefan Kollenberg hosts conversations with HR and diversity & inclusion practitioners, sharing valuable insights from their work.
This week’s conversation is with Ulysses Smith - Founder and CEO of Archetype D&I Consulting and Diversity, Inclusion & Belonging Leader at Blend.
Listen to the podcast or read below for the edited transcript.
Stefan: To get started, can you share a bit more about yourself and what you do?
Ulysses: I grew up in Jacksonville, Florida. I ended up moving to New York to go to school. I worked in New York for a while and ended up falling into the D&I space. I initially started in architecture and city planning - and realized that there was a set of questions I was interested in answering that the study of architecture was not interested in asking.
I found myself interested in thinking about the policy behind design and thinking through what it meant for an architect or a government official to place buildings in a community without asking the community. It got me thinking about who has access to the venues where all these decisions are being made.
Through that, I started looking at all these various barriers to participation for different groups. I then moved to DC for a hot second to work on Capitol Hill, learning how much I hated working with Congress and dealing with forced arbitration laws. At that time I was working on the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, which ultimately did not pass, was geared at eliminating discrimination against LGBTQ+ individuals in the workplace, which we are still seeing as an issue today. But then I ended up moving back to New York and working at Cornell University for a while, running their D&I strategy, which was exciting for me.
Then I somehow ended up being approached by the tech sector. I started a consulting firm and was looking to work with small and medium sized tech firms to build out their strategies, focusing on integrating D&I from the beginning. But then I got to work with very large organizations and ended up liking working with those organizations.
So I’ve been here ever since, but I never really saw myself in tech.
Stefan: Has there been a major difference in how D&I is approached across those sectors that you’ve been in?
Ulysses: It’s been fascinating because I think tech is a self-proclaimed progressive and disruptive industry. There seems to be this thought that the D&I practice is very new, and it’s not. Especially if you look at these established institutions with established practices and industries, especially for higher education, where we’ve seen successes for some time.
The big difference is the perception of output, for example. There’s a perception that higher ed is incredibly slow, and that’s not necessarily true. I think higher ed is very experimental because you’re surrounded by a classroom environment and are encouraged to try a bunch of new things. Because you are navigating such large and complex institutions, your inputs are probably 10 times more than what’s going on in the tech sector at any given point in time, but the public only sees the final version of something, so it seems slower. Whereas tech is all about the minimum viable product, hustle hustle hustle.
I think that other industries are a bit farther ahead of the tech sector in terms of understanding and moving to this point to now reap the benefits of having a diverse workforce instead of being stuck on the business case and on recruiting. You have to talk about the rest of the business.
Stefan: What are some of the mistakes you’ve made early on as a D&I practitioner? How could someone else avoid them?
Ulysses: I’d say one of my biggest mistakes is a more personal choice in terms of aligning myself with specific organizations. I think this is for any practitioner. You come in, you see something shiny. For me, it was a novel experience to walk into a small startup environment. But for me to come from a very structured, very large institution to walk into situations where people don’t even know how to put the “p” in process, let alone the “s” in structure… that’s a little difficult for me.
I’ve just started to be very careful and cautious about the organizations with whom I choose to do business. Because you can easily walk into an organization that says they’re committed to inclusion and diversity and want to do all these things… then you realize your role is actually to just appease people. The role was made from grassroots protests, and the organization itself is not interested in making significant structural and systemic changes. That can be extremely taxing.
Stefan: What do you love most about your work?
Ulysses: I think people talk about diversity fatigue a lot. It’s very real. And I think that goes back to choosing the right organization to work for. If you’re going to walk into an organization where you are constantly beating your head up against a brick wall every day, it’s not going to be fun.
But even with all the hardships and struggles that come with this practice, there are those moments where people have learned things or people feel affirmed. I think it’s those moments that bring it all together for you.
Stefan: What are some things that D&I professionals should start doing and stop doing?
Ulysses: When I go somewhere, my goal is to build a function that doesn’t look like anywhere else. And that means we are not going to be a function that is relegated to a small program in HR. I hope going forward that we start treating D&I as an actual business function and getting it out of the HR space. I don’t know what it looks like for every organization, but I know that HR is not the best area for this anymore. There are many people who are successful in HR and I don’t want to discount their work. But it’s time to start applying it to other parts of the organization.
On the product side, make sure that we’re actually building things that are accessible to a broad range of people. Be able to understand that landscape and have a team with a leader who can guide that.
And our leaders themselves have to be more equipped with the skills necessary to do that.
We’ve got to stop putting out descriptions for heads of D&I that are really just a program manager who manages employee groups and recruiting efforts. It would also be great if we started treating these folks as actual professionals who are well-skilled in their craft.
Stefan: What about having it placed in Corporate Social Responsibility (CSR)?
There’s no way that D&I work can be divorced from social impact work. By definition, we are overwhelmingly focused on equity. We’re often responsible for getting people out beyond the four corners of the office to actually do work in the community that establishes us as a responsible community partner. I think it makes sense.
Stefan: What are some core skills that individuals need to be successful in these roles?
Ulysses: People need to have a basic understanding of how to collect and interpret data. You don’t have to have a PhD, but you should at least understand what numbers are statistically significant and which ones aren’t when we’re seeing deviation from the norm.
You also have to be able to tell a tailored story relevant to business leaders. This piece is going to be incredibly important because a lot of the work we do depends on the day-to-day of the business. It also requires a lot of critical thinking skills. You have to be able to engage deeply on some subjects.
It’s also important as a D&I practitioner to build coalitions. You’re able to navigate very complex organizations, leading with influence because you are often not in a place to make decisions or have the final authority.
Then I’d also say listening with empathy. You have to hone your skills on these topics. Two ears, one mouth.
Stefan: Let’s dig into coalition building. How can you build a coalition in an organization? How can you change people’s views or perspective on the world?
Ulysses: I’m not trying to change anyone’s perspective. Rather, I’m here to add to people’s perspectives. I want to create a space and give people the opportunity to see the world through the lens of somebody else. People change on their own.
But for a coalition, it’s making critical connections and being armed with relevant information. A lot of practitioners don’t know what they are looking for, to be honest. They just don’t have extensive backgrounds in this space. But a part of coalition building is to understand the relevant area of the business or understand what is relevant to the person you’re trying to get on board. Then it’s how you position yourself as a strategic partner to them in order to help them accomplish those goals - and that’s what you do as a D&I practitioner, is be someone who aids them in getting those goals.
We would start with conversations around team composition and such but I’d always ask “What are your goals? What can I do as a partner to help you reach those goals?”
Some people are going to be appealed to with hard numbers and facts. Other people might be appealed to with just the right moral imperative. Then others you have to do some mixture of both of those things.
You’re making the connection to whatever is most relevant for that person and then positioning yourself as a strategic partner to them.
Stefan: Where’s D&I going to evolve in the next 5 years?
Ulysses: I think we will see this practice evolve into a standalone business function in the next few years. We’re already starting to see it now. You’ve started to see companies getting more specific with what they need in job descriptions - someone who’s able to navigate a complex business and understand other parts of the business. We’re starting to see positive change.
I also think it’s going to be standard to have a team and the outlier will be if you have a singular person responsible for doing all of this work.
Stefan: What would the team look like?
Ulysses: It depends on the company, but obviously there will be a leader whose job is to oversee the strategy and direction for the organization - and to partner with the rest of the functional leaders across the organization.
Then there should be:
Someone responsible for internal programming around employee experience.
A function geared towards bridging the gap between your sales, customer success, and business development functions.
A technical program manager with a background in the product side of things, whether that’s engineering or design, who has the knowledge to be that consultant to all functions, making sure the product or service we’re putting out is as inclusive as it’s supposed to be.
The team should be consultative in nature but has ownership over specific parts of the business.
Stefan: Ok - lightning round. What’s your favorite quote?
Ulysses: “I said what I said,” by Nene Leakes.
Stefan: What motivates you in life?
Ulysses: Justice and settling for nothing less than excellence.
Stefan: What book or movie changed the way you look at the world?
Ulysses: A book: The Color of Law. You should read it immediately.
Stefan: What’s your favorite TV show?
Ulysses: Anything sci-fi or thriller. The Expanse is my jam. Salvation. And Ozark.
Stefan: What’s your favorite video game?
Ulysses: I’m a big gamer. The Deus Ex franchise and the Mass Effect franchise.
Stefan: What’s the best way for people to get in touch with you?
Ulysses: LinkedIn is probably best!
Stefan: Amazing - thanks for a great chat!
That wraps up this episode of our podcast, if you want to listen to audio version click below.
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